0:00:00 - (Will Rucker): Welcome to Compassionate Las Vegas, the podcast. I'm your host, will Rucker, and I am so grateful that you are tuning into this week's episode. We have an absolutely dynamic guest, world renowned, one of my favorite human beings, and I think you're really going to enjoy our conversation. So thank you for tuning in, and welcome to the podcast, none other than Rick Hansen.
0:00:26 - (Rick Hanson): Well, that was very gracious. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. I'm very honored to be part of this.
0:00:33 - (Will Rucker): Absolutely. And I truly mean that. Your books are staples in my library. They're not ones that just sit on the shelf, but they're highlighted and dog eared and, you know, written in, because the work that you done really is transformational. And before I give too much away, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and kind of share your thoughts on how you would define compassion.
0:01:01 - (Rick Hanson): Well, I'm. I beg your pardon. I'm someone who right now is at the tail end of COVID so my voice could be a little scratchy. I'm a professionally. I'm a clinical psychologist and longtime mindfulness teacher and author. I'm also a longtime husband, approaching 42 years now, and parents, a parent of two adult kids with my wife and human being. Born into sort of middle, middle class white privilege, you know, and grew up in Southern California.
0:01:37 - (Rick Hanson): Had some suffering as a kid, not trauma, but really a thin soup of what are called social supplies. And so I entered college with what felt like an enormous hole in my heart that I then started to realize I could fill by deliberately taking in the good that was true, take in the good that's real and to grow the good that lasts. And that's become my journey a lot. So I'm really interested in the power that we do have and claiming that power in the innermost temple of our own being, to heal a little and grow a little and awaken a little every day by deliberately internalizing genuinely beneficial experiences, particularly experiences of whatever it is we want to grow inside, including, for example, compassion.
0:02:30 - (Rick Hanson): So specifically to compassion, it's the combination of empathy and caring. Empathy without caring is just empathy. Empathy itself is morally neutral. Caring without empathy kind of phones it in. It's superficial, doesn't have traction. You have to let the person land in your heart. You have to let yourself be affected by them. That's empathy. And then comes compassion. Compassion, which is bittersweet, the bitter of the empathy, but the sweet of the tender care and concern for that other person which moves you to action to relieve their suffering.
0:03:09 - (Rick Hanson): If that's possible and realistic for you. So that's what compassion knows. It's grounded in our evolutionary biology. You can see the seeds of compassion in terms of biological evolution in other primates, chimpanzees, gorillas. You could see forms of it in elephants and whales and even in rats, for example. But the full flowering of compassion is what stitched our hunter gatherer bands together over the last several million years of evolution and enabled them to survive and thrive in really harsh conditions through the process of what's called caring and sharing compassion and justice at the foundation of the bands in which humans have lived for 97% of the time we've walked this earth.
0:03:58 - (Rick Hanson): Compassion's hardwired, but it's vulnerable. It can be very easily obstructed by social factors, us against them groups, whether it's on the playground in junior high school or structured in societies or at the level of nations against each other. It's easy for humans to be manipulated by the siren songs of would be authoritarian tyrants, as we've seen throughout history, and we see it in America today.
0:04:31 - (Rick Hanson): And so it's really important to treat compassion as humanity's birthright. That's precious and is important to protect and to cultivate, to plant seeds for it, and nurture them carefully at all ages, from the youngest among us to the oldest, and scaled up at the largest scales. For example, you know, compassion in Las Vegas, as you do it there, as I've done it, the global compassion coalition myself, scale up compassion at the level of collective action that can change systemic sources of suffering finally for the better.
0:05:10 - (Will Rucker): Yeah, I would say I'd love to just bottle you up and just carry you everywhere, but I kind of get to do that with your books. So thank you for sharing that. There were so many amazing nuggets in that I want to dive a bit more deeply or unpack that us versus dump thing, because we're really starting to see that not just, you know, through the confines of our american nation, but throughout the globe.
0:05:37 - (Will Rucker): And I think there's. There was a moment where we had the Black Lives Matter movement, and folks were really trying to tear down those artificial barriers of difference. And now it's almost as if the pendulum has swung the other way and those differences are even more pronounced. So can you talk a bit about how we overcome this idea of us versus them and how we get to a more under better understanding of common humanity?
0:06:10 - (Rick Hanson): Well, I want to speak first as a psychologist with some expertise, and then I'm going to rattle on like a guy at the other end of the bar, you know what I mean? I'm not going to claim any special expertise, you know? Okay, good. So there's some kind of line that opinions are like a particular bodily part. Everyone has them. So here we go. So way of thinking about it is that to put it in evolution, biological evolution, and I want to be clear, you know, for me, there really is a divine ground of all, which is consistent with the fact that our universe is nearly 14 billion years old.
0:06:48 - (Rick Hanson): And, you know, the nervous system has been evolving itself for 600 million years. Okay. In that context, our human hominid and primate ancestors lived in small bands. They cooperated internally, but they competed externally. And that cooperation gradually evolved in humans to be very deep, very significant, really significant inside our human bands, because that's how they were able to survive harsh conditions.
0:07:20 - (Rick Hanson): But they competed, often violently, with other human bands, brutally. And so we have the two wolves in our heart in that metaphor, the wolf of love and the wolf of hate, broadly speaking. And almost everyone has that wolf of hate in their heart. There's a place for occasionally tapping in to the intensity and the protectiveness. If my country were invaded, I would do what I could as a 71 year old guy to protect my country.
0:07:48 - (Rick Hanson): If I were american or ukrainian, for example, I would do what I could. So there's a place for the fierceness and the protectiveness of the wolf of hate. All right? On the other hand, we've just seen throughout history, and including the present time, how quickly that wolf of hate jumps up as soon as it has any sense of fear or grievance. The problem is, we're very vulnerable to leaders, bullies of various kinds, playing up fears and grievances.
0:08:20 - (Rick Hanson): And you see that throughout history, and you see the structure of that in appeals by authoritarians in America today. Fear and grievance, when, in fact, very often there's little basis for fear or grievance. Actually, it's trumped up. You need not forgive the pun. It says manufactured. Actually, it's manufactured. There are not hordes of brown people coming over the border raping and pillaging. It's just not true, right?
0:08:53 - (Rick Hanson): It's just not true that calling out the fact that black lives do matter and need to matter, that doesn't take away from the privileged position and white people like me have enjoyed in America for centuries. A country built on the backs of enslaved people. It's ridiculous. But still, we're very vulnerable to that. The jewish people in Germany in the 1930s were no threat to that country. They were not the source of Germany's defeat in world War one or, you know, its economic difficulties, and yet, you know, Hitler could play on those fears and tap into that ancient streak of anti semitism.
0:09:38 - (Rick Hanson): So we're very vulnerable before we move past that. Yeah. Being what do we do about it? That's what I'm happy to talk with you about.
0:09:45 - (Will Rucker): Well, before we even get to what we do about it, I'm really curious as to the. Why we're so susceptible to it, why the reality of our circumstances does not quite penetrate into how we perceive things.
0:10:03 - (Rick Hanson): Great question. Yeah. Why would people like to feel aggrieved? Feeling aggrieved, feeling done wrong to feeling wronged is a painful experience. You feel angry, you don't like it. It's not happiness, it's not love. Right. Why would people like it? And I think it's because people can go overboard with evolutionary explanations, but I think it's because grievance was a way to organize groups together in our evolutionary history that became potent adversaries to other groups that were trying to attack them or became very effective aggressors against other groups.
0:10:48 - (Rick Hanson): Feel aggrieved or dehumanize the other, you get a lot more effective. Go over there, frankly, kill the men, take the women and children, move on. That happened a lot in our history. A little detail. The death rate due to all the wars in the 20th century, the death rate for males was about 1%. The death rate to males in many, many hunter gatherer bands due to intergroup conflict is around twelve to 15%.
0:11:23 - (Rick Hanson): That's our legacy. So, yeah, we have that capacity. And I also think that that individual vulnerability, think of it as a vulnerability. Like, for example, I can carbohydrates sugar. I could take it or leave it. Now, there are other things that I like a lot, and I've got to be careful about it. Right? I had an alcoholic grandfather. I got to be careful. But sugar, and it doesn't do it for me. But. So people vary in their vulnerability to the appeal of something.
0:11:50 - (Rick Hanson): Likewise, I think you can see that some people are very quick to. They're very easily manipulated with grievance, whereas other people are just. Yeah, they're less manipulated by that. They don't want to be mistreated. They can be tough, they can be strong. They could deal with real threats, but they're not so prone to following behind a bully. I think there's an individual difference. And the people that are more prone to that temperamentally tend to be the shock troops of various authoritarian demagogues.
0:12:29 - (Rick Hanson): They tend to quickly join. They get into it. You can just see them, you can see a lot of similarity. And the people who are just cheering on fill in the blank despots throughout history. So I think that's why we have that vulnerability. And then it's very manipulated by society and culture and demonizing the other and all the rest of that. The point for me quite deeply is to think about what joins us. I'll name two things.
0:12:58 - (Rick Hanson): One is to see the whole and to refuse to get hijacked by the part which is a particular grievance or a particular atrocity or a particular thing. Just to see the whole. That's a really important thing for us to be able to do, whether it's at the individual level of our own psychology. Be aware of all of yourself, all the parts. Richard Schwartz, Dick Schwartz has his current book titled no Bad Parts.
0:13:29 - (Rick Hanson): They got to be managed. You got to regulate the wolf of hate, but you don't hate it, because if you hate the wolf of hate, you just feed the wolf of hate. Okay? But we need to see the whole. So that's one. Two is compassion. So with regard to the first, I think respecting journalism, respecting local journalism, not letting local journalism get bought up by a bunch of right wing outlets that are propaganda outlets that are fused with Russias propaganda system here in our own country.
0:14:02 - (Rick Hanson): Excuse me. Hello, wake up. And also, I think its really important to, to have compassion across the aisle, you know, and also finishing, I think we could spend an awful lot of time trying to convince people there's no cure for willful stupidity. There's just you. I have been in half a cult for a few years when I was in my twenties, and I think there's a cult in many quarters. You could see that in different countries. You could see that in the tilt toward right wing authoritarianism. In Hungary and Poland, certainly in Russia, you could see the cult of Putin.
0:14:53 - (Rick Hanson): You could see cultism, frankly, on the right, mainly in the US right now. And when you realize, oh, they're in a cult, you're not going to convince them. 43% of Americans today would vote for Donald Trump tomorrow after he's convicted of a felony. Literally a felony conviction will not make a difference to them. You know, the forces of authoritarian grievance want to restrict voting. You look at each which side wants to restrict voting in a democracy, which side is trying to suppress democracy?
0:15:34 - (Rick Hanson): What does a would be authoritarian do? As soon as they take over, they want to control the press and they want to restrict access to voting, and they want to suppress voting, and they want to corrupt the voting process, dude. So what do we got to do? We have to be strong. We have to talk with each other, especially the people who think it doesn't matter. Oh, they're all the same. Sorry. They're not all the same.
0:15:57 - (Rick Hanson): You know, you decide, do you want to protect a woman's right to choose whether to have a baby or not? If she gets pregnant or you don't. You want to block abortions. Those are clear choices. I'm not arguing for one or the other. I have my personal view. But I'm just saying there's differences. You know? Do you want to choose candidates who want to take action to slow global warming, or do you want to support candidates who think global warming is a hoax?
0:16:31 - (Rick Hanson): And even if it's true, there's nothing really we can do about it.
0:16:35 - (Will Rucker): So even as I'm sitting here, I'm someone that's fairly active. You know, I consider myself rather resilient. I start my day with meditation and do all the things right. And even listening to this, it feels overwhelming. It feels as though I'm so small, this situation is so big that it almost robs hope. It feels as though, well, you know, these are great ideas. Yeah, let's talk to our neighbor and have compassion.
0:17:08 - (Will Rucker): But then in action, when you try to be kind to someone and they bite your head off, when you approach someone with clear fact that it presented exactly as you just did, hey, these are the issues. And as you mentioned, there's no cure for the willful stupidity. That feels overwhelming. What are some of the tools that you use in order to stay optimistic, to stay hopeful, just to stay engaged?
0:17:34 - (Rick Hanson): Well, for one, it's to get out of dead end conversations. You know, fool me once, you know, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Or Maya Angelou. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time, essentially. So I hear you about that sense of despair. First off, it's understandable. Second, the forces of wealth and power want you to despair. They want you to feel helpless. They want you to numb out and tilt toward the bread and circuses that have been used from the roman empire and before and after to divert people's attention from claiming the power they do have.
0:18:24 - (Rick Hanson): And I think that, first of all, around the world, there are so many forces for good. I came to visit Las Vegas just a few months ago, and I'm happy to say I got a day of rock climbing in in Red Rocks Canyon. Glad to hear old dogs still have a few tricks. You know, with a guide, you know, as I was, the rope was safe and all that, but I climbed that stuff myself, you know, anyway. And it was incredibly impressive.
0:18:53 - (Rick Hanson): What you all have created there, you've really done it. You've made a difference in many, many lives. So do not doubt the power of individuals, especially when they join together with other individuals in widening and widening circles. The thing that I would like to see more of is more coalitions forming more alliances, more associations of different kinds forming among groups and organizations in America and around the world that are working for the common good, working for the greater good.
0:19:27 - (Rick Hanson): Most nonprofits do not particularly work together. It's interesting that for profit companies compete locally, they cooperate politically. Nonprofits are the opposite. They're very happy. They're friendly with each other at the street level. They almost never put their money in a single bucket at a big enough scale to be effective lobbyists. We need to change that. So there are things to do, but there's a lot of hope. I grew up in the sixties and seventies.
0:19:54 - (Rick Hanson): I'm born in 52. And I was aware politically by the time. 19, 67, 68, time. A great change in my country. You know, civil rights, women's rights, environmentalism, anti war, gay rights, cultural infusions coming in from the east. Wow, we made a huge difference. We got a long way to go, but wow. Wow, you're 1950, frankly, to 20, 2070 years still. George Floyd gets murdered by a freaking cop while people just kind of stand watching, including his fellow officers. Terrible.
0:20:36 - (Rick Hanson): And people can make a difference. So I just think it's a personal choice. If someone just says, you know, I just can't deal with it, screw it. I'm just like a little flea, you know, on the elephant here. I can't do anything. Okay, personal choice. And I'm going to move on to the next person in the line that I can talk with. From a psychological standpoint, helplessness is pernicious. It's depressing to feel helpless. So it's really important to claim agency, whatever you do have.
0:21:12 - (Rick Hanson): I wrote a short piece. I have a lot of little short essays called just one things. One of them is called vote. And we vote in many ways. Yeah, pick your candidates. There are differences and pick one vote. But beyond that, we vote in our mind every day. We vote with what we choose to pay attention to. We vote with what we decide to agree with, that other people say, or, you know, retain a kind of silence if it's not safe to openly or appropriate or worth it to openly disagree.
0:21:49 - (Rick Hanson): Vote inside your mind. That's the power you do have. And as you claim that agency claim that power, it lifts your mood. It makes you feel that you can enjoy more of what's called the bliss of blamelessness. You've done your part right, and together, you can make an enormous difference. Like, for example, youth turnout in America in the 2022 elections enabled the Democrats to hold onto the Senate, and it also enabled a number of other crucial tipping point elections to occur.
0:22:28 - (Rick Hanson): Here's a little history. I hope the history is not overwhelming, and I'm not blathering too long. Let's just use the twenties. I'll say this in shut up. 2016 election. Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump. Okay, now, three things that were very unusual happened that year. Number one, Russia's intelligence agencies colluded with WikiLeaks to hack both the republican and democratic governing committees and got all their emails, but only chose to release the ones from the Democratic Party to embarrass Hillary Clinton as much as possible.
0:23:13 - (Rick Hanson): Second thing that happened was that the New York Times and other major publications endlessly foregrounded this silly, trivial side issue of Hillary Clinton having a handful of classified emails on her home computer, just like Colin Powell and every secretary of state before her did. They were retroactively classified. That's the essence of that. And the third thing was that James Comey kept pounding the drum of that inquiry.
0:23:45 - (Rick Hanson): Despite all that, she won the popular vote by 2.8 million people in 2016. These are facts. Everything I'm saying is factual. She won the popular vote by 2.8 million people. What gave Donald Trump the election in the electoral college in the american system were 78,000 votes across Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. 78,000 votes. Just 78,000 compared to 2.8 million. These are facts. Go to wikipedia. January.
0:24:23 - (Rick Hanson): Total fact. Wow. Just imagine if there'd been 2% greater youth turnout. Youth voting rates, you know, 18 to 25, even in presidential elections, tend to be less than 60%. You know, 40%, sometimes 50% of the younger people are just sitting on the sidelines. Sitting on their hands on the sidelines would. Even though they're going to be most affected over the longest period of time from the consequences of these choices.
0:24:54 - (Rick Hanson): Imagine if youth turnout, which tends to be progressive, increased by a handful of percentages, a few percent in those precincts. In those three states, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, the election would have had a different result. And so we should not confuse ourselves about the impact of seemingly small amounts of individual action that accumulate with other individuals who are acting to be highly consequential in tipping point elections, particularly in the american system, which is winner takes all.
0:25:35 - (Rick Hanson): It's binary. It's either or.
0:25:38 - (Will Rucker): What I'm hearing. Well, I was gonna say two main things, but there were many main things. But two of the main things I'll highlight, youth, are absolutely essential to creating the change that we want to see. And then secondly, break the, even though we're talking about see the whole, break it into parts and recognize how much impact just one person really can have. And so I thank you. My balloon, the air has kind of replenished in that balloon. As part of this conversation, I do want to ask as well. You started, you're not just talking about creating coalitions. You started one, the global compassion coalition.
0:26:20 - (Will Rucker): What led you to create that, and how do people get engaged?
0:26:25 - (Rick Hanson): Oh, thank you. Well, it basically goes back to this just kind of fundamental fact that for almost all of the time, you and I and our ancestors, people like us, walked the earth, we did so in stone age conditions, but on the basis of cooperating compassionately with each other in the band of roughly 40 to 50 people, we mainly lived with our whole life. Just reflect on that. And then along came agriculture and domestication of animals and whatnot. That enabled big surpluses of food and stuff, which then enabled growing concentrations of wealth, which enabled concentrations of power, which fostered even more concentrations of wealth in a vicious cycle.
0:27:18 - (Rick Hanson): And it's been more or less Game of Thrones for most people for most of the years in the last 10,000 years. And that pisses me off. Even in America, fairly advantaged country, net net. Still, wealth inequality is growing. The power of a handful of billionaires with their dark money campaigns is ridiculous. The way the deck is stacked through privilege and advantage is terrible. You know, democracies get raided, and only 6% of the people in the planet live in a high functioning democracy, like Finland, New Zealand, handful of other countries, not America. America's not included there, you know, because of our weird system that gives an outsize amount of power to rural areas that tend to tilt, as rural areas tend to do conservatively.
0:28:17 - (Rick Hanson): So that pisses me off. And I'm thinking about, what do we need to do, humanity, to change this fundamental political equation, which is about power. I thought, well, we need to do what our ancestors did, you know, Donald Trump's, Vladimir Putin's, Netanyahu's, et cetera, and versions of them that are women and so forth. But usually these tyrants are male. You know, they lived in our hunter gatherer bands, right?
0:28:50 - (Rick Hanson): And Adolf Hitler. Let's use that example of pol pot. They occurred in our bands. But what happened inside the band, they got regulated. They got controlled because of common truth, common welfare and common justice, which have been blown up during Game of Thrones. So the reestablishing of common truth is absolutely foundational. That's why I'm a big believer in facts and moving on from people that are just committed to not recognizing the facts. There's a line that you cannot convince a man of something that it is his paycheck not to believe.
0:29:26 - (Rick Hanson): I think that was from Upton Sinclair, I think. Anyway, so my point is that how do we restore common truth, common welfare, common justice, which we've lost in most countries and most places, including in America. It's really hard to establish common truth here. Our common welfare is not very common. Rich get richer, poor get poor. Middle. Middle stays the same. Sorry, that's not common welfare. You know, our social safety net is the worst of any developed wealthy country in the world.
0:30:03 - (Rick Hanson): You know, in common justice, you watch Donald Trump gaming the system for years to avoid any kind of a consequence where, you know, obviously, person of color. No. Is much more likely to be railroaded unjustly with a much stiffer sentence than a white person for an equivalent crime. And so it's not common justice. So that made me mad in a good way. So I thought, what do you got to do? Well, let's form a giant coalition, and let's start now.
0:30:36 - (Rick Hanson): And so the global compassion coalition is growing by several thousand people a week. It's a big planet. We're north of 125,000 now. Growing, growing, growing. Anybody is welcome. Organizations are welcome. We can use all the help in the world. We're very happy for people who can donate financially. You know, it's a nonprofit. I don't make a penny from it. I have also, besides donating my time for a couple of years now, donating financially as well, if you have that capacity, but more than that, just really supporting it and telling other people about it, because, frankly, the bigger we are, the stronger we are for the common good.
0:31:14 - (Rick Hanson): Classically, wealth and power is try to divide the many alphas, try to separate the betas, divide them from each other. I'm using the word betas not in a critical sense. I just mean it in terms of how much power individuals have. We need to come together, but together, we're a mighty force. A mighty force. You may have seen recently the documentary Bayard Ruston. This documentary, kind of a docudrama about Bayard Rustin, who is doctor Martin Luther King, junior s kind of principal partner in the formation of sort of the major march on Washington and a lot in the civil rights movement.
0:31:56 - (Rick Hanson): And, you know, there's a lot of history there in which what started out as a few dozen people who had just had it, Rosa Parks, bless your memory. You know, a few dozen people just said, enough with this. Then they gathered together, and then there was not a few dozen, but it was a few hundred, a few thousand, a few million. You know, I became kind of aware when it was pushing a few million as a. I was a young teenager and made a difference.
0:32:27 - (Rick Hanson): So the work is undone. Many, many good developments are happening. They really are around the world, and we need to band together and have the courage to be strong together for the greater good and have the courage and the vision to think long, like, how do we want it to be by 2100? I'll be dead by then, but I'm still. That's in my sights. What's it like for humanity in 2100, which is, what, 76 years from now? Yeah, around the band. That's right around the corner. Big change by 2100, we need to think big, we need to think wide, and we need to think long, and to have the kojones, you know, or the courage, the gumption, the gusto, the moxie to be willing to do that.
0:33:15 - (Rick Hanson): That's my two cent.
0:33:17 - (Will Rucker): I love it. As we come to a close, I just want to say thank you again for being a guest on our program and for the work that you do. As we close, I want to ask you to just kind of answer or finish the sentences that I start, just kind of whatever comes to mind right away. It doesn't have to be too thoughtful, just like, whatever pops up for you.
0:33:39 - (Rick Hanson): All right. All right.
0:33:40 - (Will Rucker): This is great.
0:33:41 - (Rick Hanson): This is, by the way, a good therapeutic tool. Sentence completion extended. Very good.
0:33:44 - (Will Rucker): Yeah, that's right.
0:33:46 - (Rick Hanson): Yeah.
0:33:47 - (Will Rucker): All right. So just start off easy. We'll work our way up.
0:33:51 - (Rick Hanson): My favorite food is. What the world needs now is, well, love for sure. Love and justice. Love and justice. Love without justice is kind of flabby. Justice without love is called love and justice. Doctor Martin Luther King had a beautiful quotation about the combination of those two.
0:34:13 - (Will Rucker): The key to compassion is letting people.
0:34:18 - (Rick Hanson): Land in your heart, including yourself.
0:34:23 - (Will Rucker): Inclusivity means.
0:34:30 - (Rick Hanson): Omitting none. I mean, there's a beautiful line. You may know it in buddhist teachings. It's called the loving kindness sutta sutra, something close to omitting none. One should with a boundless heart, without enmity or hate, you know, wish all beings well and the crucial line is inclusivity is omitting none, including non human, non human beings. Love is. Love is. Wow. The super solvent of greed, hatred and delusion.
0:35:11 - (Will Rucker): I am.
0:35:14 - (Rick Hanson): I am happy to be with you here.
0:35:20 - (Will Rucker): Well, Rick, again, thank you for the work that you're doing. Last question. Where can people find out more information about you and your work?
0:35:31 - (Rick Hanson): Well, that's a very kind question. I would just say google my name. No big deal. Rick hansen.
0:35:39 - (Will Rucker): I've got to jump in. I love that for so many reasons. There's a meme, like, just google me. And that's basically what you just dropped there. Like, Mike dropped. Just google me.
0:35:50 - (Rick Hanson): Oh, that's cool. I didn't know. Kind of tuned into, you know, pop culture, but there are major chunks of it, and I'm out of touch in. Out of touch with, like, the insanity around Taylor Swift and Travis kelsey because I'm a Niners fan. Go niners. Right? Go niners. But in any case, yeah. Well, that's funny. Yeah, just google me, man. So rickhanson.net, Rick hanson.com. And you'll see tons of almost entirely free offerings, a handful of online programs that are for sale with scholarships or anyone in need.
0:36:23 - (Rick Hanson): But that's where you can of find more. And you can also check out the global compassion coalition at that. Name.org globalcompassioncoalition.org dot perfect.
0:36:34 - (Will Rucker): This has been compassionate. Las Vegas, the podcast. I'm will rucker, and as I always remind you, you are not just a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop. And what you do matters, so live compassionately. See you next time. Right?
0:36:57 - (Rick Hanson): You, our.
